Interview in El País (26/04/2021)

Ten years ago Dual Training System was established in Spain. But nowadays only around 3% of the total VET offer in Spain is Dual Training. However in your school around 60% of the students are enrolled in this model. What is the secret of Xabec’s success?

We went out to other countries to get to know the model of the Dual Training System. And that led us to implement it in all the trainings that we offer. The key to success was the faith that the teachers had in the model, and that made them overcome all the obstacles that were presented. The result has been the creation of a quality model adapted to the reality of the companies of our environment, which is endorsed by the high level of satisfaction expressed by the entrepreneurs and, consequently, by the high rate of employability. Xabec’s success is having managed to keep companies very happy.

What do you think is failing in Spain so that, unlike what is happening in Xabec, it is costing so much to set up?

The answer without any doubt is the lack of flexibility and adaptability. Spanish Titles are designed in offices; the curricula are very extensive … It should be simplified a lot. The emphasis should be on competencies and give a greater role to the business world, since what works today may not be useful tomorrow because can become obsolete.

In this sense, what measures do you consider essential to increase the offer and the number of students enrolled in Dual System in Spain, beyond success stories such as Xabec?

The legislative change that has just taken place recently in our country has been crucial. But legislative changes do not fix things: things are fixed by the people, the professionals responsible for the implementation of the model. First you we need to change the mentality of the teachers and the management staff of the school, and for that the Ministry of Education must give them all the support that is necessary. Dual Training must be really attractive both for students and employers. For Dual Vocational Training to be successful, two wills must be added: that of the student and that of the business community. There will be difficulties in the implantation, of course; ignoring this can mean “killing” it from its birth. But always there are difficulties, what we have to do is work had to overcome them. Dialogue with employers is very important, to make them really participate in the construction of a flexible model. And be realistic: companies are companies and not “souls of charity”. Entrepreneurs must be really satisfied with the results.

With so many students in your school enrolled in Dual Training, I imagine that you will already have data that reinforces some of the benefits attributed to it with respect to Traditional Vocational Training. Is there an important difference, for example, in terms of job placement?

Xabec is a small school; in our case it is difficult to see this difference because for some years the job placement rate for our IVT students has been close to 100%. But I think that both models necessarily have to coexist: Dual Training is not well suited to all professions, or to all students, or to the entire typology of companies that exist in the market in our area. In any case, traditional VET must be much more practical when it is taught at schools in their workshops.

What other benefits have you observed from Dual Training once it has been put into practice?

Synergies are generated, collaboration ties with companies are strengthened and non-labor practices of other types of training models are facilitated, such as training for employment and adult training. These synergies are absolutely necessary if you want to implement “Integrated Vocational Training Centers”.

What do students and companies of this type of FP usually highlight?

Students highly value enjoying what they do: FP Dual is practical learning. Companies emphasize that it is a good model to prepare the replacement of personnel who are retiring.

The pandemic has hit the entire economy. Has Dual Training also felt the blow?

Last year was suspended by indication of the Department of Education: it was a fatal blow. Some students requested to be able to do an internship, outside the educational system, but they were not allowed.

Can you extract any learning from this situation to make this training more attractive?

Apprentices in Dual Training have to be treated, for all intents and purposes, as what they should be: employees of the company. If they are discriminated, motivation suffers.

In a year of pandemic, the youth unemployment rate has shot up 15% in Spain. Can FP Dual be a tool to combat these figures?

Absolutely. It is something all the countries where they have implemented this Vocational Training model say. We have seen it come true during the past economic crisis in Spain. The key to success is “dancing to the beat of the companie”s. In our country we must “re-think the Educational Sysem.  Some people think – with an obsolete mentality – that a degree ensures training, and that is not the case.

Some critics of the Dual Training System point to the curricula (they say they lose compared to School Based Learning), to the fact that it can be a cheap work-force, and that it is reaching above all people with studies or even jobs, not who it should reach in theory … What do you think about it?

In my opinion they are “theoretical”, or they are people who know a very low quality model of Dual Training because they may have had bad experiences. The Latin maxim already says it: “corruptio optima pessima”, “the corruption of the good is the worst”. We have said it before; the key is in the quality of the human factor responsible for the application of the model: it has to be applied well. There is no paper, no educational model that resists poorly done work.